AI Agents Need Computers: 74% MoM Growth, 850K/Day Runs, & New Agent Cloud — Ivan Burazin, Daytona

I've never experienced this that people literally call you if you do not give them access. 我从没遇到过这种情况，人们会打电话来催你，就因为你不给他们访问权限。 Like they want access right now. 他们现在就想要。 And so it's like, okay, they don't want this. 所以感觉像是，好吧，他们不想要这个。 The thing that they want doesn't seem to exist or they have not found it and they really really want what what we want. 他们想要的东西好像不存在，或者说他们还没找到，但他们真的非常非常想要我们手里有的东西。 And then when we understood that we're on to something. 然后我们意识到我们发现了什么。 And then when you think about the size of the market, like the market for every single agent that will exist ever in the future is just like what is that market? 你想想市场的规模，将来每一个会存在的 agent，它们的市场加起来，那会有多大？ How big is that? 那会有多大？ Before we get into today's episode, I just have a small message for listeners. 在今天的节目开始之前，我有一小段话想对听众说。 Thank you. 谢谢你们。 We would not be able to bring you the AI engineering, science, and entertainment content that you so clearly want if you didn't choose to also click in and tune into our content. 如果不是你们选择点进来收听我们的内容，我们根本没办法持续为你们带来 AI 工程、科学和娱乐方面的节目。 We've been approached by sponsors on an almost daily basis. 我们几乎每天都会被赞助商找上门来。 But fortunately, enough of you actually subscribe to us to keep all this sustainable without ads. 但幸运的是，有足够多的人真的订阅了我们，让我们不用靠广告也能维持下去。 And we want to keep it that way. 我们希望继续保持这样。 But I just have one favor to ask all of you. 但我只有一件事想请大家帮忙。 The single most powerful, completely free thing you can do is to click that subscribe button. 你能做到的最有力、完全免费的事，就是点击那个订阅按钮。 It's the only thing I'll ever ask of you, and it means absolutely everything to me and my team that works so hard to bring the Inspace to you each and every week. 这是我唯一会请求你们做的事，对我和我的团队来说意义非凡，他们每周都在拼命工作，把 Latent Space 带给你们。 If you do it, I promise you, we'll never stop working to make the show even better. 如果你订阅了，我保证我们永远不会停止努力，把节目做得更好。 Now, let's get into it. 好了，让我们开始。 Okay, we're in the studio with Ivan Burin, CEO of Daytona. 我们今天请到了 Daytona 的 CEO Ivan Burazin，他来到了我们的录音室。 Welcome. 欢迎你。 Thanks for having me, man. 谢谢邀请，兄弟。 Ivan, you and I go back Ivan，我们认识 way back. 很久了。 I don't even know how um you found like we did you reach out or for shift or 我甚至不记得是怎么，是你找到我的，还是为了 Shift？ I reached out to you. 是我主动联系你的。 The reason was you we were just we were thinking about 原因是……我们当时在想 I was one of the co-founders of code anywhere the first browser based idea and so we were thinking a long time of like local host should die and you had this article local and then I reached out to you because of that um and then we talked and I was actually at a different job and learning about 我是 CodeAnywhere 的联合创始人之一，那是第一个基于浏览器的 IDE，我们那时候想了很久，localhost 应该消亡，而你恰好写了那篇关于 localhost 的文章，所以我联系了你，然后我们聊了一下，其实那时候我在另一家公司工作，在研究 I was a head of like developer experience and you were quite well verssed in that and I actually reached out to you among other people like how do we how do we go about that what are the key things and whatnot at this point in time and you were nice enough to take the call. 我当时负责开发者体验，你在这方面很有心得，我联系了你和其他一些人，问我们该怎么做、有哪些关键点之类的，你那时候很好心地接了我的电话。 And I remember I was late on your call with you. 我记得我那次和你通话迟到了。 I don't remember. 我不记得了。 I remember because I was with my then I was thinking if it was girlfriend or wife at that point in time. 我记得，因为那时候我在跟我的，我当时在想她是女朋友还是老婆来着。 I'm not sure. 我不确定。 It's the same person. 不管怎样，是同一个人。 So that's great. 那就好。 And I was late cuz we were um in you know Italy on uh vacation and then I was late for something. 我迟到是因为我们在意大利度假，然后有件事我就迟到了。 I felt so bad and you were so nice to be uh good about that. 我感觉特别不好意思，但你非常大度，完全没放心上。 The the reason I'm nice is because I'm also late to other people. 我大度是因为我自己也经常对别人迟到。 So it's like you know who's who's without sin here. 所以，谁能说谁呢。 Yeah. 对。 So I have to you know for for those who don't know uh infob shift 所以，对于不了解的听众，我得介绍一下 Infobip 和 Shift there's this whole thing that uh you did in the past and that was basically one of the inspirations for me starting 你过去做的这些事，也是我创办 Latent Space 的灵感来源之一 yeah engineer which is like you know 就像 AI Engineer 那样，你知道 I have to thank you for giving me that push to be like oh you can you can build and sell conferences. 我得谢谢你给了我那一推，让我看到，哦原来你可以搭建和出售会议的。 Yeah and I remember you asked you asked me at the beginning to give me advisory shares. 对，我记得你一开始就问我要不要给你顾问股。 I was so focused what we're doing 当时我太专注于我们自己在做的事了 I said no and I should have took the advisor shares so I'm sorry but anyway 我说不，这是我的错，本来应该拿那些顾问股的，抱歉，不管怎样 we're not we're not venturebacks you know anyway. 我们又不是 VC 背书的，不说了。 So I I think what's interest impressive about you is that code anywhere is the thing that you've been trying to build and uh you know you kind of put it on hold and came back after after Infob just I just give us the story you 我觉得你真正令人印象深刻的地方是，CodeAnywhere 是你一直想建的东西，你后来暂时放下，在 Infobip 之后又回来了，给我们讲讲这段故事 the story and the origin story going into Daytona. 讲讲你进入 Daytona 的起源故事。 Sure. 好的。 Like really way back me and my co-founder have been together. 说起来真的很久很久以前，我和我的联合创始人一直是搭档。 I've said this multiple times. 我说过很多次了。 It's like we were married and divorced and married. 就像结了婚，又离了，然后又结了。 Some people actually asked me is is my co-founder my partner? 有人甚至问我，我的联合创始人是不是我的伴侣？ like they thought it literally it's not literally but we have done multiple companies together and to your point we had this shift where we went from 他们真的这样以为，不是字面意思，但我们确实一起创办过好几家公司，就你说的，我们经历了 Shift the code anywhere to the conference called shift and then back to uh Daytona. 从 CodeAnywhere 到 Shift 那个会议，然后又回到 Daytona。 We originally started stacking stacking servers doing like virtualization in the early 2000s and you know routters and doing basically all these things um at a foundational level and that was a services company which we sold to focus on what my co-founder actually invented which was the very first browser based IDE 我们最开始是在 2000 年代初期堆服务器搞虚拟化，做路由器，从底层做这些基础的事，那是一家服务公司，我们卖掉它之后，专注于我联合创始人实际发明的东西，第一个基于浏览器的 IDE。 right um I say the first before us was actually Heroku 对，我说是第一个，在我们之前其实有 Heroku they did it for a very very short time until they became Heroku but outside of them we were the only one and it was called Cloud9 他们做了很短一段时间，然后就变成了 Heroku，但除他们之外我们是唯一一家，还有就是 Cloud9 there was cloud9 that came out slightly after us there Cloud9 是在我们之后稍晚出来的 There was um Replet which came out when we stopped doing it. 还有 Replit，是我们退出之后才出现的。 Replet came out and they have been successful since then which is great. Replit 出来之后一直做得很好，挺好的。 There was nitrous IO. 还有 Nitrous IO。 There was quite a few that existed in time but it was like too early. 当时有不少，但时机太早了。 But the interesting part is that we at that point in time because there was no VS code for those that still remember VS Code um for for um there was no Kubernetes and Docker had just started when we or I'm not sure if it was even public at that point in time. 有意思的是，那个时候还没有 VS Code，对于还记得的人来说，也没有 Kubernetes，Docker 刚刚起步，我甚至不确定那时候是否已经公开发布了。 And so we had to build everything into the whole stack ourselves and that was the key learning that we brought into and that we've been using in Daytona today. 所以我们不得不自己从头构建整套技术栈，这是我们后来带进 Daytona 的核心经验。 So it was super early there about 3 million people used code anywhere. 那时候非常早，CodeAnywhere 大概有 300 万用户。 It was slightly it was angelbacked more than venturebacked. 我们更多是靠天使投资，而不是 VC 融资。 We ended up paying everyone back because it didn't have that sort of scale. 最终我们把钱都还给了投资人，因为规模没有达到预期。 But you know 3 years ago we started something similar with Daytona which is not what we were what we are today but it was automating dev environments for human engineers. 但你知道，3 年前我们重新做了类似的事，那时候的 Daytona 不是现在这样，而是为人类工程师自动化开发环境。 the basically the underlining stack of code anywhere and then we we did a hard pivot last January to sandboxes and so here we are 本质上就是 CodeAnywhere 那套底层技术栈，然后去年 1 月我们做了一次硬转型，转向沙箱，于是就有了今天的 Daytona。 historic pivot 历史性的转型。 and you know it's one of those things where like I had independently invested in in code anywhere but also in E2B and then both of you pivoted into the same thing and I'm like 我当时独立投了 CodeAnywhere，也投了 E2B，结果你们两家都转向了同一个方向，我就在想 you invested you invested in Daytona you invested in Daytona but you 你投了 Daytona，你投了 Daytona，但是你 were the first if we had not got your check we wouldn't have done it 要是没拿到你那张支票，我们不会走到今天 no way 不会吧 no it was like we have to get him on board first and you were that kicker that we that got us on the because you you were putting me on your pitch 真的，当时我们就说必须先让他上船，你就是那个关键，因为你把我放进了你的 pitch deck, man. deck，兄弟。 I was like, man, this is like a good trip if I don't invest like 我当时心想，如果我不投的话，那就太亏了 Well, that's because it was your quote. 那是因为那是你说的话。 It's like we did a bunch of research about end of local host and who was interested in that. 我们做了很多关于 localhost 终结的调研，看谁对这个话题感兴趣。 So, 所以， yeah. 对。 Yeah. 对。 No, it's like um I put 不是的，我是说我放 I wrote that blog post and every single company in that field reached out to me and then every VC who was receiving those pitches then also had to call me and like talk talk through it with me. 我写了那篇博客之后，那个领域每一家公司都来联系我，然后接收这些 pitch 的每个 VC 也都跑来找我，让我帮他们捋一捋。 Uh 嗯 it's finally it's finally happening. 终于来了。 It's finally happening. 终于来了。 It's finally happening with maybe sort of non-human users. 终于来了，或许是靠着非人类用户。 Yeah. 对。 Yeah. 对。 Yeah. 对。 Um, so what is Daytona today? 那 Daytona 现在是什么？ Let's get like a crypt description. 来个简洁的描述。 I'm wearing a shirt. 我穿着一件 T 恤。 You're wearing a shirt? 你穿着一件 T 恤？ Yes. 对。 It It says I think your branding is very good. 上面写的，我觉得你们的品牌做得很好。 Like it's very consistent. 非常一致。