Marc Andreessen's Worldview in 60 Minutes | Live on MTS

People are becoming what we now refer to as AI vampires. लोग अब AI vampire बन रहे हैं। They've got these huge bags under their eyes. उनकी आँखों के नीचे बड़ी-बड़ी सूजन है। They're completely exhausted, but they're like euphoric. वे पूरी तरह थके हुए हैं, पर बेहद उत्साहित भी। They're thrilled. वे बहुत खुश हैं। We're entering a golden age, which is AI is going to be a superpower that everybody on the planet's going to have access to. हम एक स्वर्णिम युग में प्रवेश कर रहे हैं, जहाँ AI एक superpower बनेगी जो दुनिया के हर इंसान को मिलेगी। It's like the most dramatic increase in programmer productivity in like ever. यह programmer productivity में अब तक की सबसे नाटकीय वृद्धि है। Twitter proved it, right? Twitter ने यह साबित कर दिया, है न? Cutting 70% and then it's running better or as good as it was before. 70% कटौती के बाद भी यह पहले जितना ही या उससे बेहतर चल रहा है। I generally don't wish I could go back in time and do things over again, but it would be really really fun right now to be 18 or 20 or 22 and to have this capability and figure out what I could do with it. मैं आमतौर पर वापस जाकर चीजें दोबारा करने की ख्वाहिश नहीं रखता, लेकिन अभी 18, 20 या 22 साल का होना और यह क्षमता हाथ में होना वाकई बेहद मजेदार होता। We are going to see super producers the likes of which we've never seen in the world. हम ऐसे super producers देखने वाले हैं जैसे दुनिया ने पहले कभी नहीं देखे। There's news about it. इस बारे में खबर है। UFOs. UFOs। What is clear is the government at certain times has hid certain materials. यह स्पष्ट है कि सरकार ने कुछ मौकों पर कुछ सामग्री छुपाई है। Why would they do that if there's nothing to really worry about? अगर सच में चिंता की कोई बात नहीं थी तो वे ऐसा क्यों करते? Two things are pretty clear at this point. इस वक्त दो बातें काफी स्पष्ट हैं। One is that पहली यह है कि Mark, welcome to monitoring the situation. Marc, Monitoring the Situation में आपका स्वागत है। Eric, it is great to be back. Eric, वापस आना बेहतरीन लगा। So, there's a lot to monitor today. तो, आज monitor करने के लिए बहुत कुछ है। Uh I want to start first start with something that just happened um which is the uh anthropic uh blackmailing incident. मैं पहले उस चीज़ से शुरू करना चाहता हूँ जो हाल ही में हुई, यानी Anthropic का वह blackmailing incident। And I I first want to tell a brief story which is uh my uh friend Joe Hudson has this concept called the golden algorithm. पहले मैं एक संक्षिप्त किस्सा बताना चाहता हूँ, मेरे दोस्त Joe Hudson का एक concept है जिसे वे golden algorithm कहते हैं। And the golden algorithm is states that um whatever you're scared about you bring it about in exactly the way you're scared about it. और golden algorithm का सिद्धांत यह है कि जिस चीज़ से आप डरते हैं, वही आप ठीक उसी तरह से खुद लाते हैं। So if you're scared about getting abandoned you'll be super insecure and then you'll people will abandon you because you're so insecure. अगर आप छोड़े जाने से डरते हैं तो आप बेहद असुरक्षित हो जाते हैं और फिर लोग आपको छोड़ देते हैं क्योंकि आप इतने असुरक्षित हैं। Uh this is an example of a literal golden algorithm where people have been so scared that AI is going to be evil and have written about all the ways in which it's evil and in fact maybe it's informed um informed something. यह literal golden algorithm का उदाहरण है, जहाँ लोग इतने डरे हुए थे कि AI बुरा होगा और उन्होंने इसके बुरे तरीकों के बारे में लिखा, और शायद इसने training में कुछ प्रभावित किया। What's happening there or what do we find uh interesting? वहाँ क्या हो रहा है या हमें क्या दिलचस्प लगता है? I I haven't studied this one in detail. मैंने इसका विस्तार से अध्ययन नहीं किया। Um uh I I've been monitoring other situations but however um uh I mean just what I saw so far मैं दूसरी situations monitor कर रहा था, लेकिन जो मैंने अब तक देखा I think I just saw anthropics thread. मुझे लगता है मैंने Anthropic का thread देखा। I haven't I haven't I haven't read the underlying material yet, but Anthropic threads have said they trace the they trace some blackmail behavior to literally to the to the AI doomer literature. मैंने underlying material अभी नहीं पढ़ा, लेकिन Anthropic ने कहा है कि उन्होंने blackmail जैसा व्यवहार literally AI doomer literature तक trace किया। Yeah. हाँ। That they [laughter] that it was in the training data. कि [हँसी] कि वह training data में था। So there there are all these there are all these there are all these you know scenarios of like you know the terminate you know all the rogue AI gone wrong that the that the AI doomer has been writing about for 20 years and and literally anthropic of course which is of course the company is like you know half doomer u apparently you know basically you know essentially said that their own their own their own movement's literature is the thing that's causing the behavior that they say they they they don't want. तो इन सब scenarios में जैसे rogue AI के बारे में जो AI doomers 20 साल से लिखते आए हैं, और literally Anthropic, जो खुद आधी doomer company है, ने essentially कहा कि उनके अपने movement की literature ही वह व्यवहार पैदा कर रही है जो वे नहीं चाहते। So it is a fairly um incredible तो यह काफी अविश्वसनीय है Yes. हाँ। Yes it is. हाँ, है। Yes. हाँ। Oh, I mean like look if you didn't if you don't want to build the killer AI, you know, step one would be don't build the देखिए, अगर आप killer AI नहीं बनाना चाहते तो step one होगा इसे मत बनाओ [laughter] [हँसी] It's like hm and then you know step two is like don't train it on all the data that says it's supposed to, you know, the literature that your movement wrote that says it's supposed to be a killer AI. और step two है कि इसे उस data पर train मत करो जो कहती है कि यह killer AI होनी चाहिए, यानी आपके अपने movement की वह literature। So I, you know, Yeah. तो, हाँ। I don't know. मुझे नहीं पता। Yeah. हाँ। It's like your it's like your your your golden algorithm coupled coupled with like the snake eating his tail. यह आपके golden algorithm जैसा है, जो snake eating his tail जैसी बात से जुड़ा है। Um coupled with, you know, I don't even know. और, आप जानते हैं, मुझे तो समझ ही नहीं आता। Like the whole thing is so bananas. पूरी बात इतनी पागलपन भरी है। Yeah. हाँ। Yeah. हाँ। the um वह, um I mean you know I can't resist you know if I could if I can if I can act out memes it's the scream meme right मेरा मतलब, मैं memes act out कर सकूँ तो रुकता नहीं, यह scream meme जैसा है ना which is you know the calls coming from inside the house. यानी calls are coming from inside the house। Yeah. हाँ। Yeah. हाँ। Exactly. बिल्कुल। The um speaking of other situations another thing you've been talking about recently is um is the concept of suicidal empathy and and and Matt Kramer had a good quote which is if the empathy you have doesn't make you more forgiving more accepting of other people's spiritual sovereignty or more understanding of people who don't want to think or live the same way you do you don't have empathy. दूसरी situations की बात करें तो जिस चीज़ के बारे में आप हाल में बात कर रहे थे वह suicidal empathy का concept है और Matt Kramer का एक अच्छा quote था कि अगर आपकी empathy आपको दूसरे लोगों की spiritual sovereignty के प्रति और अधिक क्षमाशील नहीं बनाती, आपकी तरह न जीने वाले लोगों के प्रति समझदार नहीं बनाती, तो आपके पास empathy नहीं है। you have empathy TM. आपके पास empathy TM है। Why have you been thinking about this this this concept? आप इस concept के बारे में क्यों सोच रहे हैं? Yeah, so there's this really brilliant हाँ, तो एक बहुत शानदार there's this really brilliant guy एक बहुत शानदार व्यक्ति है God gad exactly pronouncing Gatsad. Gatsad, हाँ, ठीक यही उच्चारण है। Um and um and you know very brilliant guy and it's obviously lots of YouTube videos and books and so forth and really brilliant guy. और वह बहुत प्रतिभाशाली इंसान है, YouTube पर बहुत सारे videos और books भी हैं, सच में शानदार। He's got this new book coming out on so-called what he calls suicidal empathy and you know look it's a you know there's a there's a sort of political loading to it which you know we don't need to spend a lot of time on उनकी एक नई किताब आ रही है जिसे वे suicidal empathy कहते हैं, देखिए इसमें एक राजनीतिक रंग है जिस पर ज़्यादा समय खर्च करने की ज़रूरत नहीं but um you know it's sort of this idea that there are kind of these social justice लेकिन यह एक ऐसा idea है कि कुछ social justice you know kind of social reform movements you know kind of through time that that have this characteristic of you know they you know they they they claim to be causing positive change you know in some direction and then it turns out they have you know sort of severe you know sort of negative consequences. यानी समय के साथ ऐसे social reform movements आए हैं जिनकी खासियत यह है कि वे किसी दिशा में सकारात्मक बदलाव का दावा करते हैं पर नतीजा यह होता है कि उनके गंभीर नकारात्मक परिणाम निकलते हैं। um that the the great Thomas Soul महान Thomas Sowell um you know has you know basically spent 50 years writing books about this um and [laughter] and by the way no nobody nobody listened ने लगभग 50 साल इस पर किताबें लिखने में बिताए और [हँसी] और वैसे किसी ने सुना नहीं um and then in the last decade we've been through you know wave after wave of this kind of social activism that kind of you know results in like I mean it's it's all the stuff right और फिर पिछले दशक में हम इस तरह की social activism की लहरों से गुज़रे जिनके नतीजे, मतलब यह सब वही है ना it's just you know all these like you know crime policy reform defund the police things and it causes these massive crime waves and then of course low-inccome and minority people get hit hardest by that and you know all the all all these other all these other crazy things. crime policy reform, defund the police जैसी तमाम चीजें, जिनसे बड़े पैमाने पर crime waves आए और जाहिर है कम आय वाले और अल्पसंख्यक लोग सबसे ज़्यादा प्रभावित हुए। Um, and so he says, you know, he says the characteristic of kind of that kind of social reform movement is is characterized by what he calls suicidal empathy. और वे कहते हैं कि उस तरह के social reform movement की पहचान यही है जिसे वे suicidal empathy कहते हैं। Um, and the and the idea be being basically it's it's sort of driven by a pathological, you know, take it backwards, a pathological form of empathy on the one hand. और इसके पीछे का idea यह है कि यह एक तरफ empathy के pathological रूप से, एक गहरी goodness की चाहत से प्रेरित है। Um, which is, you know, it's sort of a deep desire to be nice. यानी nice बनने की गहरी इच्छा। Um, and empathetic um, you know, but but coupled with like basically you know, a sort of self-destructiveness, you know, either a willingness to really cause damage to the people you claim to be speaking for or by the way to cause damage to yourself kind of in that process. और empathetic होना, लेकिन साथ ही एक तरह की self-destructiveness भी, यानी उन लोगों को नुकसान पहुँचाने की तत्परता जिनकी आप वकालत करते हैं, या खुद को भी नुकसान। And and it's the kind of thing where you know if you've you know you know if you've lived through you know like everybody who you know everybody in San Francisco's lived through this for the last decade and seen the consequences of these movements. और यह वह चीज़ है, अगर आप San Francisco में रहे हों, जहाँ पिछले दशक में इन movements के परिणाम सबने देखे। I [clears throat] you know the San Francisco version of this is like the the quote harm reduction movement you know that ended up basically handing out you know free drug you know paraphernia and you know in some cases actually just free drugs to you know people who are just literally dying in the street from drug addiction. San Francisco का उदाहरण harm reduction movement का है जिसने literally dying in the streets लोगों को मुफ्त drug paraphernalia और कभी-कभी सीधे drugs बाँटे। Right. हाँ। So so so you just look at it and you're like well yeah that that you know they they claim to be activists they claim to be reformers. तो आप देखते हैं और सोचते हैं, ये खुद को activists, reformers कहते हैं। they claim to care about these people and yet they're killing them or or um and then killing the city um and causing innocent people to get get harmed. वे इन लोगों की परवाह का दावा करते हैं फिर भी उन्हें मार रहे हैं, शहर को बर्बाद कर रहे हैं और निर्दोष लोगों को नुकसान पहुँचा रहे हैं। It's like okay that you know you know that that that you know they seem so actively like that they're doing it out of some sense of compassion that this must be suicidal empathy. ठीक है, लगता है वे किसी करुणा की भावना से ऐसा कर रहे हैं, यह suicidal empathy ही होगी। Um the problem [laughter] with it is and I think that the problem is the theory is sort of easily falsifiable or or maybe let's lets the reformers off the hook which is they certainly don't show empathy to their enemies, right? समस्या [हँसी] यह है, और मेरे ख्याल में यह theory reformers को आसानी से बरी कर देती है, क्योंकि वे अपने दुश्मनों के प्रति कोई empathy नहीं दिखाते। And so if they're like if they're like all empathetic, you would think that they would be less aggro uh when it comes to destroying their ideological opponents, you know, who they act, you know, they take great delight in trying to wreck. अगर वे वाकई empathetic होते तो अपने ideological opponents को बर्बाद करने में इतना आनंद नहीं लेते। Um number one, on the one hand, and then and then number two is they they use the you know, the classic reformer move is to use use these movements to gain to gain power and status and money for themselves. एक तरफ वे यह करते हैं, और दूसरी तरफ classic reformer move यह है कि इन movements का उपयोग खुद के लिए power, status और पैसा बटोरने में किया जाए। And you know, again, San Francisco's a case study of this where you have all these, you know, nonprofits that, you know, recall this damage on the city and yet, you know, basically get like lavishly funded, you know, including, by the way, by the city government, by the state government. और San Francisco इसकी case study है जहाँ ये सब nonprofits हैं जो शहर को नुकसान पहुँचाते हैं लेकिन सरकार और राज्य से बड़े पैमाने पर funding पाते हैं। Um, and so it's just like, okay, well, like just like they're not, if you just like spend two seconds thinking about it, like it, you know, they're neither empathetic nor nor are they suicidal, right? और बस दो पल सोचें तो साफ दिखता है कि ये न empathetic हैं और न ही suicidal। Right? है ना? Rather quite the opposite. बल्कि बिल्कुल उल्टे। They're hateful and they're and they're and they're and they're greedy. वे घृणित हैं और लालची भी। You know, they're sort of self- aggrandizing um and and gathering power and resources for themselves. वे अपनी तारीफ करने वाले हैं और खुद के लिए power और resources इकट्ठा कर रहे हैं। Um, and so I just I just think it it it lets it lets the phenomenon off the hook, you know, it's a little bit like,"Oh, Eric, what's your biggest flaw?" और मुझे लगता है यह phenomenon को बच जाने देता है, जैसे Eric, आपकी सबसे बड़ी कमी क्या है? You know,"Oh, I'm too nice." आप कहते हैं, "ओह, मैं बहुत अच्छा हूँ।" Yeah. हाँ। Yeah. हाँ। I care too much. मुझे बहुत परवाह है। Right. ठीक है। Exactly. बिल्कुल। It's like, yeah, don't Like, I I है ना, पर देखिए By the way, Eric, I don't know. वैसे Eric, मुझे नहीं पता। I don't know what your biggest flaw is. मुझे नहीं पता आपकी सबसे बड़ी कमी क्या है। Like, it's definitely like, it's definitely not that because that's also definitely not my flaw. जो भी हो, यह निश्चित रूप से वह नहीं है क्योंकि वह मेरी भी कमी नहीं है। Like, I I guarantee I have other things wrong with me that are like way more wrong than मेरे साथ भी और बहुत ज़्यादा गलत चीजें हैं Yeah. हाँ। Um, and so I I I just I और मैं बस